InvestNot yet confirmed elsewhere1 publisher3 min readPublished
Holding U.S. debt flat would take 5%-6% real growth, CBO's Swagel estimates
CBO Director Phillip Swagel put the real growth needed to stop U.S. debt rising against GDP at 5%-6%, more than double the current pace. He told a Minneapolis Fed conference that what remains is tax and spending changes, which he called inherently political choices.
The Investor · Invest desk

What happened
- Swagel's estimate assumes interest rates of 4%-5% and requires nominal GDP growth of 7%-8%, figures he offered as back-of-the-envelope math.
- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said last month that with 3% growth the U.S. would grow its way out of its debt problem.
- The Penn Wharton Budget Model puts the growth needed to hold the debt ratio steady at 3.5%-4% a year, averaged over a decade.
- Publicly held debt equals 100% of GDP, gross debt stands at $40 trillion, and CBO projects the ratio reaching 120% by 2036.
Why it matters
- cost The Treasury pays for the debt's climb through higher long-term borrowing costs, though CBO's own coefficient puts that bill through 2036 at a fraction of a percentage point.
- contradiction The Treasury Secretary and Congress's budget office are 2 to 3 points of annual growth apart on what it takes to steady the debt, so investors forecasting Treasury supply have to pick one as their base case.
- exposure Holders of long-dated Treasuries carry the feedback risk Swagel described, in which a rate shock widens the deficit and the debt and then lifts rates again.
In Swagel's account, growth helps less than it appears to because it also raises what the government spends. Federal spending lifts growth, faster growth lifts wages, and wages feed into Social Security benefits [5]. A strong economy also tends to push interest rates up, adding to the cost of carrying the debt [5]. His figures have nominal growth beating the assumed interest rate by about 3 points a year [24], and roughly 2 points of the nominal figure is inflation [25]. "So growth will help, but it's probably not plausible that growth alone will stabilize our fiscal trajectory," he said [6].
All three public thresholds sit above what the market expects. The bullish Wall Street forecasts put full-year growth at 2.5% [13]. That is half a point below Bessent's 3% and 2.5 to 3.5 points below Swagel's 5%-6% [26]. Bessent's case also depends on events going his way. "We'll get to the other side of this Iran conflict, and the underlying economy is very, very strong, and I think reaccelerating," he said at Southern Methodist University [21].
Productivity is the place where Swagel's numbers could turn out too gloomy. Minneapolis Fed President Neel Kashkari asked whether AI could speed up growth, and Swagel said CBO has detected an increase in total factor productivity [8]. He said future growth will be stronger, but that the deficit is too deep for AI-driven growth to be enough [9].
So far, the debt itself has done little to rates. On Swagel's coefficient, CBO's projected 20-point climb in the debt ratio by 2036 [22] adds about 0.3 percentage points, or 30 basis points, to long-term rates [23]. Long yields are already at their highest in 24 years [17]. Fortune puts that down to the strong economy, expected Fed hikes, oil keeping inflation high and a flood of AI hyperscaler debt competing for buyers, with the size of the debt also playing a part [18]. "So it's modest, but the fiscal trajectory is really quite challenging," Swagel said [20].
We think the debt reaches bond prices mainly through a shock. Swagel said there is "almost like a turbocharger," in which "An interest rate shock feeds into the deficit, feeds into the debt, feeds back into interest rates" [16]. On CBO's estimate, a decade of slow drift costs about a third of a point [23], while a shock keeps adding to itself through that loop. The counter-case is Bessent's: 3% growth does the job, and nobody has to touch taxes or spending [14]. On Swagel's numbers, that growth rate is 2 to 3 points too low [27]. We would be wrong if long yields kept climbing after oil, Fed expectations and AI borrowing eased. That would show the market charging more for the debt than CBO's 0.015 coefficient implies [19].
What to watch
- CBO's economic forecasts due early next year, its first to include its views on AI: a 2036 debt ratio below the current 120% projection would weaken Swagel's case.
- Whether buyers keep absorbing all the debt the Treasury issues, as Fortune reported they have so far.
Clarity's read
What the record supports and how the coverage leans. The claims behind it follow.
Reality
- Evidence55
- Adoption
- Insufficient
- Hype gap+10
- Incentives
- Insufficient
- Confidence60
Claim ledger
Ranked by verification strength, evidence, and original report placement.
- [1]
CBO Director Phillip Swagel said faster economic growth is unlikely to keep U.S. debt in check, even if GDP expands at more than double its current pace.
- [2]
Gross U.S. debt is $40 trillion, and publicly held debt is 100% of GDP.
- [3]
CBO projects the debt-to-GDP ratio rising to 120% by 2036.
- [4]
Swagel spoke at a Minneapolis Fed conference on Thursday.
- [5]
Swagel said federal spending boosts growth, which lifts wages that affect outlays on Social Security benefits, and that a robust economy tends to send interest rates higher, adding to debt interest costs.
- [6]
"So growth will help, but it's probably not plausible that growth alone will stabilize our fiscal trajectory,"
- [7]
"So then we're left with changes in revenues and changes in spending, and those are inherently political choices."
- [8]
Asked by Minneapolis Fed President Neel Kashkari whether AI can boost growth, Swagel said CBO has detected an increase in total factor productivity.
- [9]
CBO's next economic forecasts, due early next year, will incorporate its views on AI; Swagel said future growth will be stronger but the deficit is so deep that AI-powered growth won't be enough.
- [10]
Swagel cautioned against doing arithmetic on the fly but offered back-of-the-envelope numbers.
- [11]
Assuming interest rates of 4%-5%, Swagel estimated nominal GDP growth would have to reach 7%-8% and real GDP growth 5%-6% to stabilize the debt.
- [12]
Real GDP grew at a 2.2% pace in the second quarter.
- [13]
Even bullish Wall Street forecasts put full-year GDP growth at 2.5%.
- [14]
"With 3% growth, we grow our way out of this," Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said at Southern Methodist University last month.
- [15]
According to the Penn Wharton Budget Model, growth would have to average 3.5%-4% over a decade to maintain the debt-to-GDP ratio.
- [16]
"So there's almost like a turbocharger," ... "An interest rate shock feeds into the deficit, feeds into the debt, feeds back into interest rates."
- [17]
The bond market is so far absorbing all the debt the Treasury issues, but long-term yields have surged to their highest levels in 24 years.
- [18]
Fortune attributes high long-term yields partly to the strong economy, expectations for Fed rate hikes, high oil prices keeping inflation high and AI hyperscaler debt competing for bond demand, with the scale of U.S. debt also a factor.
- [19]
Swagel said a 1-percentage-point increase in the debt ratio leads to a 0.015-percentage-point increase in long-term interest rates.
- [20]
"So it's modest, but the fiscal trajectory is really quite challenging,"
- [21]
"We'll get to the other side of this Iran conflict, and the underlying economy is very, very strong, and I think reaccelerating."
- [22]
CBO's projection implies a 20-percentage-point rise in the debt-to-GDP ratio by 2036.
- [23]
On Swagel's coefficient, the projected 20-point rise in the debt ratio adds about 0.3 percentage points (30 basis points) to long-term rates by 2036.
- [24]
Swagel's figures require nominal growth to exceed the assumed interest rate by about 3 percentage points a year.
- [25]
The gap between Swagel's nominal (7%-8%) and real (5%-6%) growth figures implies about 2 points of inflation.
- [26]
Bullish 2.5% full-year forecasts sit 0.5 points below Bessent's 3% and 2.5 to 3.5 points below Swagel's 5%-6%.
- [27]
Swagel's 5%-6% real growth requirement exceeds Bessent's 3% by 2 to 3 percentage points.
Sources
1 independent publisher whose own reporting we read for this story.
Topics and entities
Follow any of these and your For You feed starts watching them — no settings page required.
Topics
- US Federal DebtFollow
- Bond yieldsFollow
- AI and productivity growthFollow
- Fiscal PolicyFollow
Entities
- Congressional Budget OfficeFollow
- Phillip SwagelFollow
- Neel KashkariFollow
- Federal Reserve Bank of MinneapolisFollow
- Scott BessentFollow
- Penn Wharton Budget ModelFollow
- FortuneFollow